The Happy at Work Podcast

Authentic Leadership with Peter Lynch

• The Happy at Work Podcast • Season 6 • Episode 13

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Have you ever witnessed the metamorphosis of an aggressive and rigid leader into a collaborative partner who uplifts an entire organization? 

In this episode, we define authentic leadership with Peter Lynch, Chief People Officer at Cardinal Group Companies. 

We explore how embracing imperfections and courageously confronting deep-seated issues can transform toxic workplaces into thriving environments. Peter's 'Ugly Advantage' sets the stage as we discuss how to align business acumen with people-centered leadership to uncover the secrets to creating a contagious corporate culture. 

Join us for insights on navigating Gen Z in the workforce, including strategies for making them feel valued and leveraging their potential to drive authentic culture. 

This episode is a must-listen for cultivating a workplace where everyone thrives!

To stay connected and continue the conversation, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn.

And don't forget to check out our previous episodes for more tips and strategies to boost your workplace happiness. You can find them on your favorite podcast platform or on our website.

If you have any questions, comments, or topic suggestions for future episodes, please reach out to us. We'd love to hear from you!

Stay inspired, stay motivated, and stay happy at work!

Laura Hamill:

Welcome back for another episode of the happy at work podcast, with Laura, Tessa and Michael.

Tessa Misiaszek:

Each week we have thoughtful conversations with leaders, founders and authors about happiness at work.

Michael McCarthy:

Tune in each Thursday for a new conversation. Enjoy the show.

Tessa Misiaszek:

Hi, and welcome to the happy at work podcast. We are so excited to be joined by Peter Lynch, who is the Chief People Officer with Cardinal group companies. And Peter, welcome to the happy at work podcast. Thank

Peter Lynch:

Thank you so much. I'm so excited. I mean, to be with you three brilliant human beings is exciting and to talk about being happy at work, come on doesn't get better than this.

Tessa Misiaszek:

Well, that was a wonderful start to the podcast, and I'm so excited about what we'll learn. But let's take a step back. And Peter, if you can just tell us a little bit about your career journey and how you have found yourself to being an expert in people as well as culture.

Peter Lynch:

Yeah, thanks so much. So I really I got my start in corporate America. At gateway computers, if you remember the old cloud spotted boxes, my my wife and I were just getting married, I had been working at a university in Seattle, Seattle University. And we were going to move out to the Midwest and I wanted to some experience at a big company. And so gateway computers was the big company there. And so I got a job and I got a job training in one of their country stores. So I was basically helping first time computer users learn how to use their computers. And it just it felt like a natural fit, I moved into training. And then I got a job because we didn't want to stay in the Midwest, we wanted to move somewhere else. I love Colorado. And I ended up getting a job with DISH Network. And that was kind of my initial foray into kind of the HR function more broadly, and really focused heavily on on people and training and performance and those kinds of things. I moved in and out of HR and operations, I was also a VP of global operations at the likes of Western Union. So I loved the idea of the business side and the people side. And I really began to understand that the best way to win the business side is to win the people side. And it was just fascinating to me, that happy team members that engaged people produce such better results. And so I spent a whole my whole career doing that. And about five years ago, I left my last big job at Empower retirement. And I was consulting with this small company, Cardinal group, they were about 500 employees at the time, about 10 years old. And the CEO and co founder Alex O'Brien kept asking me, will you come in and be our chief people officer? And I said no 26 times. And then on the 27th time, he asked such a great question. He said, So you're out there talking about the future of work. He said, Do you want to talk about the future of work? Or do you want to create it? And I was like, Man, what a great question. I want to create it. So I came into the organization. And it's been about five years, and the rest is history there.

Laura Hamill:

love that so much. So that idea of how hard it is to, it's easy to talk about it. I've been in the same situation, right? Easy is a little bit of a stretch, but you need to talk about it and way harder to make it happen. So I'm with you, I had a lot more respect after I became a chief people officer, before that I was in more of a research function or consulting role where I was like a little finger wagging. Fun, you know, you can do better. And then you get in that job. And you say, Oh, wow, I see the challenges, right? Yeah. So I know one of the things that you focus on is authentic leadership. And so I'm curious if you would tell us a little bit more about your perspective on authentic leadership. And especially what do you think are the barriers? Why? I mean, it seems like such a basic idea that we all should get, why aren't Why aren't more leaders doing it?

Peter Lynch:

I'll tell you, it's I love that you said it's hard and why aren't more people doing it? I think, because for the last 20 or 30 years, what we've seen modeled for us is pretty and shiny as opposed to real and authentic and social media has just continued down that path. And and so what we've seen is, be who I think you want me to be, as opposed to who I was created to be. And, you know, we like to We like to polish rough edges, we like to polish away patina, we like to, to do all sorts of things that remove one of the most powerful and influential leadership components I've ever seen. I mean, you know, we can go through all the soft skills of what's important to leadership and communication and emotional intelligence and this and that, but I'm telling you, if you don't have the foundation of authenticity, you're building on a pretty frail Foundation. And what I've seen is when you not only empower, but when you unleash people into their authenticity, they become a type of leader that they never even thought they could become. And so, you know, there's so many components, and we'll we'll dig into a little when we talk about the ugly model. But to me, more than anything, it's about an organization that a starts with giving a damn about people actually really cares about people, number one. And then number two, has really key leaders modeling what it looks like to be authentic, because it's hard to do. It's not easy. You know, it's not easy to say the thing, not the thing that you think people want to hear. But the thing they need to hear, because those are really hard conversations.

Michael McCarthy:

Peter, I love this, especially the modeling. I had a consulting client. And he had he works on Sundays, but he tells his employees not to. Yeah, and he sent out an email on a Monday saying, you know, I'm sending you emails on a Sunday. But you know, please don't, please don't feel like you have to write me back on a Sunday. It's I'm just doing that. But you go enjoy your weekend. And he goes, everyone keeps writing me back on a Sunday. And I said, Yeah, because you're the model of what a senior vice president does. And if they want to be you, then you're on a Sunday. And because you said not to do it, that doesn't mean anything. It's what you do, not what you say. And he kind of looked at me like really are like, yeah, yeah, really? I'd love to hear about what what what do you think of that? And then if we could talk about how the ugly model of what is it? And how can it help us be better leaders?

Peter Lynch:

Yeah, for sure. It's to me, it's, we have this, I've had this philosophy, my whole career, I call it feed over words. I would rather see somebody move their feet and move their mouth. It's really cheap and easy to move your mouth, it's really hard to move your feet. So it's easy to say, don't send emails on the weekends, it's really hard as an executive to actually model that. And, like at our company, we actually created this seven to seven. So we have a blackout where we say we don't want you to send emails after 7pm at night or before 7am in the morning. And one of the things we've said is listen, if you have to, and I get sometimes you want to work on the weekend, or whatever, that's fine, schedule it to go out Monday after seven, right? We don't we want to become and we understand there's client issues, et cetera. But we want to become what we're saying that we want to be. So feet over words. And this is the foundation of the ugly advantage in this model. And it really started with two Japanese concepts. Concept number one is wabi sabi, which is two Japanese words meaning rustic simplicity, and the beauty that comes with age. And then a second concept, which is called Kintsugi, which is that we're actually more beautiful because of our, our flaws and our cracks, as opposed to in spite of. And both of these ideas were created through a 14th century tea master in Japan. And if you've ever seen these tea ceremonies in Japan, they're just beautiful. I mean, it's pristine, the best pottery you've ever seen in the world. And one day, this tea master just felt like it was devoid of life. And so he commissioned somebody that said, I want you to make some cups for me, but I want to see the fingerprints, I want to be discolored, I want to see the edges to be uneven. And he brought that in, and everybody was talking about those cups, and not the beautiful cups. And then one day one of his beautiful pieces broke. And instead of putting it back together and trying to hide the break, he used gold molding clay to accentuate the break. And this became consew, ghee. And now you see these beautiful pieces of pottery. And again, people are attracted to something that has a story to something that feels unique. That looks different. And so this is the base foundation for what the ugly advantages. It's don't run from those things that you like, probably have spent your life hating about yourself. But those actually become where your greatness lies. That is where your superpower is. So don't look like everybody else become who you were designed to be as a leader.

Tessa Misiaszek:

So I really, first of all, thank you for telling that story. I haven't heard it but now I'm I just wrote it down so I can look at my house, but amazing, beautiful concept. And so when we think about a story like that, and how it makes so much sense, and we think about the challenges that we've all faced and how we've grown from those challenges and become the people that we are, but when you're thinking about organizational culture, which you know, oftentimes starts at the top of the house, and you're going into it Not an organization that might have a toxic leadership or, you know, have a lot of dysfunction within its culture. How do you? I mean, how do you start to apply that type of philosophy to a culture that might have a high level of toxicity?

Peter Lynch:

Yeah, it's really hard. So I'm not gonna say this as easy. It's very hard. And I've not been successful everywhere I've been. So this is not a silver bullet. I think first and foremost, it takes some bravery. So you're gonna have to have some bravery and say some things that are scary and hard. And I'll give you one quick story of an example. So I was brought into an organization that had just acquired two other companies. So it was three companies coming together, they were all very different. And the CEO, he had asked me to come in and help with this culture integration, and to help create a common culture. And I said, that's fine. I said, but that means I'm gonna have to have some hard conversations, and you need to be okay with that. So I set the standard upfront. Six advance six months, and one of our heads of sales, who was making a ton of money been in the industry forever. He was 58 years old. He was just not a fit. And so I took him to a coffee shop across the street from our corporate headquarters. And we sat down, and I said, I said, you're, you're in a-hole. I mean, I use the word. And I can tell he, like, literally wanted to jump across the table at me. And I said, Give me a second, though. I said, we have two choices here. So you can choose to leave. And we'll severance you will say nice things about you. I said, or I've seen flashes of greatness in you. You can choose to stay, but you have to work with me, and I'm gonna coach you. And I want you to tap into this thing that you've never tapped into before. And at that coffee shop across the street from our corporate headquarters, he started to cry. He's 58. He's bawling. He said, My family hates me. My team hates me, and I hate myself. He chose to stay. And that was 10 years ago. He is one of the best leaders I've ever met. And I ran into him literally a year ago, at a restaurant, he came up and gave me a big hug. He's 67. He said, I'm never quitting work. He's like, I'm having the time of my life. Like I didn't realize that, that leadership and work could be fun. And that actually is in my ugly model. That's the L I call it likeable. And it's weird because that word sounds soft. But I did the most likable thing. And to him that anyone could do. And when we left the coffee shop, he actually said he said Why is no one ever said this to me before. And I'm like, because it's scary. It's hard. You know, you're an imposing person, but it's the most likable thing I could actually do for that person. So I would say it has to start with a foundation of bravery. And then you have to apply some really interesting principles like likability, which is this concept that I'm not going to say what people want to hear, I'm going to say what they need to hear.

Tessa Misiaszek:

Can you just as a quick follow up to that? Do you remember if there was like one or two kind of key items that you coach them on that were, you know, kind of the game changers for what shifted his perspective or the way he interacted with people?

Peter Lynch:

Yeah, he had felt like he had to be the guy who knew everything in every room was that was the biggest thing. And so he just came across, across as aggressive as talking down to people. And he did that not because he knew everything, but because he was scared actually. And so I said, what I'm going to do is I'm actually going to create so much space for you. I said, when you're in your leadership meetings, you can talk one time in the first 25 minutes. And he was like, that was the hardest thing. And it took him a little while to figure that out. But once he got into the comfort that he didn't have to be the smartest person in every room, he actually became the smartest person in every room, because he started to actually only speak on things he knew. And it gave his team an opportunity. So that was the that was really the kind of the catalyst for his change.

Michael McCarthy:

I love that. But let me make it. I'm going to repeat test this question a little bit harder. So that say that we have this this fictional company where that person behavior is part of the culture? Yeah, it's part of it. Yeah, employees hate it. They're afraid of getting all the bad stuff coming from it. How do you get the bravery and courage to be the maverick of doing the ugly model being an authentic leader when the culture kind of rewards that asshole behavior?

Peter Lynch:

So I mean, it's, it's really fascinating. I've got so many things. I could talk about this. I'm trying to think what's the most critical, but I think you have to have a quorum of people who believe the same thing. So I think one of the things you have to do is look across the organization find those people that are kindred spirits related to this and create some level of strength together. And it actually goes back to one of my favorite TED talks by Margaret Heffernan where she talked about this study about chickens about productivity, and they wanted to study productivity. And so William Moore from Peter Perdue, he went and which chickens because you just count eggs. And he took this flock and he took the most productive and put them in one flock and the least productive and put them in another. But over a year and a half, what he found is that super flock, the most productive flock was killing each other. And what he found is this, the not super flock was out producing the other flock, at why it's because these were asshole chickens. And what they were actually doing was suppressing the productivity of everyone else. So they looked like the super chicken. But once you got those chickens together by themselves, they out produce this one. So that's why you have to find a coalition within the organization of people that believe like you do. And then you have to together change the narrative, and push the push this new narrative what culture is, and I'll just, I'll end with this on the culture piece, I actually have a definition that changes the way we look at it, the definition of culture, most people think it's a vision or mission. It's the cool offices, it's the awards. And my definition is that your culture is defined as the worst behavior you tolerate. So what happens is, most organizations try to create a ceiling. And I say the only way to move the ceiling up is to move the floor up. So stop focusing on all the great things you're trying to do. Instead, find the broken things that you are doing, and fix those. And so that change in mentality actually gets a lot of leaders who think they don't want to do that. And they want to be the asshole chicken. Sometimes they actually come along and they're like, Man, I actually like this, you know, the I can I can be vulnerable. And I don't have to be the smartest person in the room.

Laura Hamill:

Completely. That's what I was just going to ask you about. I mean, so much of what I see in organizations, when you see that kind of behavior, that that fear that's underneath that, right? Yes, kind of coupled with maybe not having a lot of other examples around them, where they saw people doing things in a different way. Or they have permission or support to not do it that way. I remember sitting next to a CEO after I'd done a talk and I was talking about some concepts related to well being and organizational support. And the guy said, Laura, I completely hear you. But I don't feel like I've ever had anybody who is above me, who was like that, or felt. I didn't feel supported. Like I want to support my team. But I've never felt supported. Yeah, when you start to kind of dig into that, and like your example of talking with the guy and helping him see, I mean, they're human beings, right. And they found what they think they were supposed to do in their behavior, and not a lot of support for other kinds of behavior. So I hope that like slowly, we can start to have it the other there's other examples, right. Other examples of being a great leader than just the command and control based models. So do you have any thoughts on on other ways or other examples that you've been able to kind of get that fear reduced? at the leadership level?

Peter Lynch:

Yeah, I mean, to me, a lot of it goes back to results. A lot of leaders, you know, are command and control and step into that, because they produce high results like this sales guy was, I mean, he was an amazing salesperson, he was producing real results. So one of the things I've always said is, if you're that leader, who tends to go towards which I do to, you know, to is to this, what are, quote unquote, the softer things, you have to be an expert at what you do at a level that creates not just an opportunity to have a seat at the table, but to own the table. I talked to heads of HR all the time, and I said, stop fighting for a seat at the table, own the table. And I said to own the table, what you're gonna have to do is you're gonna have to do the hard work, you got to understand the business, you got to create business results. Like one of the things that we did when I came here is I saw an opportunity in HR. And last year, we ended up being over 20% of our company's and Ally net operating income through my team. This is unheard of in HR, why did I do that? I did it because I do love business. But I love people more. And if I truly want to have an impact on people, especially with those really type a really strong leaders, then I have to have credibility. So I better come with something that makes them listen, otherwise they're always going to believe that they have the right direction and the right voice.

Michael McCarthy:

I love that. So let's say that someone tries this, okay, I'm in a culture of you know, command and control and fear. I'm going to create my own psychological safety, ie the authentic leader follow the ugly model, you know, do the likability thing and try it. What tangible, measurable results. Can you expect where you can show your boss Hey, yeah, this and it works and here's some money for you. What can we get?

Peter Lynch:

Yeah, and I mean, they're going to be found a lot of different places. Again, I've done it through in HR workers compensation through benefits, through we've actually done branded content that vendors pay to brand within our training materials, because we're in front of the right audience. So there's all sorts of revenue generating opportunities, and success opportunities that you can do. Those are a few high level ones. But to me, what you have to do is you have to create culture that becomes so contagious, that everybody else starts talking about it. When we went Glassdoor is top 100 places to work for the first time, our our Head of Sales came to me and she said, I'm actually shocked. We've had some pitches recently, and they said that they came to our table because of this. And so that thing that felt felt soft to a salesperson in culture, became tangible. So sometimes it doesn't even have to be in your org. But if it shows up in their org, then they'll listen to you. And I always go back to so in ugly, the why is yoked and it's based on the study of built in horses over the last, you know, a couple 100 years that a Belgian horse, one of the strongest animals in the world can pull 4000 pounds by itself. And then long ago, farmers would start they would buy a second horse and they were like, well, let's get two horses pulling separately, and we'll have 1000 pounds of output. And then one farmer put them together and yoke them together with this piece of wood. And what they found is when two horses were yoked together, they couldn't pull 8000 pounds, they actually could pull 16,000 pounds. And I always say this is the magic of culture. When people ask me to explain culture, I have a really hard time because some of it is true magic. It's like these horses that were yoked together showed up with an output that didn't make sense based on their individual output. And then they found these horses over years, if they work together, ate together, stalled together, they could go from 16,000 pounds to 32,000 pounds of output. This is the magic of culture. This is the magic of I'm here to help you you're here to help me. We're not fighting against each other. We're working together. And so you'll start to create results. And the Corporate Executive Board actually calls this the spillover effect. They said leaders who help other leaders in other verticals create a spillover effect, which is a 5% increase results for that other leader, not for me, for the other leader.

Laura Hamill:

That's awesome, Peter. So you've told us a bit about the ugly model. I think you've covered the L for like a bill. Why do you want it? Yes, the U and the G?

Peter Lynch:

Yeah. So the 'U' is unique. It's a little bit of a different definition. If you look in Webster's dictionary, it says "uniqueness is how you make others see you". To me, 'ugly uniqueness' is how you make others see themselves. So it's really about becoming a mirror to create self reflection and people and strength. The 'G' sorry, is gutsy, and gutsy is not about the bravery to start something gutsy is about the bravery to recover from failure. So ugly gutsiness is not about saying I'm gonna climb a mountain and try and you fail ugly. Ugly gutsiness is try it seven times and you fail seven times, and then you still will try and eighth time. So those are those are the high level concepts.

Laura Hamill:

They're awesome. Thank you.

Tessa Misiaszek:

So I want to shift the conversation a little bit because you reopened up and you really said that kind of spoke to people being the most important asset and that if organizations start to realize this, it really can shift everything for that. And it makes me think, and I've been thinking about this a lot lately, not to bring this conversation to politics. This is not about politics. You might remember I think it was a 1990 What was it 1994 or 1992 when Bill Clinton ran for president and James Carville famously said its economy stupid. Think about the fact that it's it's people stupid, right? No the day it's your strategy. It's about people. It's your skilling. It's about people. It's about your business and innovation. It's about people. So what are the challenges I think that organizations are facing right now is in the multigenerational workplace. Yeah. And of course, I think historically, being a Gen X or myself, we were seen as the MTV generation that no one could understand us. I'm sure there's that's always I know that's always existed. But I have a team actually have with a few Gen Z employees who are magnificent. I mean, I'm talking the smartest people. Absolutely brilliant. But even they say to me, sometimes they feel like people are pushing them down, right? They have all this passion, energy intelligence to bring to the table but then it's like they they find that in some conversations, people are kind of like, tamper down go to Yeah, you should know your place in this conversation. So just super curious what your research and what your perspective is on how organizations can really tap into the awesomeness that is Gen Z are all of our children, you know, how can organizations manage the the kind of multigenerational workplace?

Peter Lynch:

Yeah. And so we're at Cardinal, we're about 2200. Team members right now, 53% of our team members are Gen Z. So we are crazily heavy in that workforce. And we've been looking into it a lot. And there was a glint study that came out. And they were talking about what's the workforce feel like, and they said, 53% of the workforce, and even higher percent in the Gen Z, but 53% of the workforce said they feel invisible. And the word was so fascinating to me, it wasn't that they didn't, you know, they, they didn't feel like they had a voice by itself, invisible to me, connotates. So many things, they don't have a voice, but they're not seen. They're not gone to. And I will say the one thing that I've seen when in looking at Gen Z is we've never had a generation ever even close, that had the kind of access to instant expertise as this group does. Literally, my kids will come to me with stuff that I have never known in my 51 years of life, and they came across that so quickly and so easily. And so they have instant access to expertise. So when people are like, you know, they're, you know, they want a raise, and they want this Well, yes. Because there's never been a generation that has ever before seen. What is the true potential? What are other people getting paid? I'm really smart. And I'm doubling down and becoming an expert quickly. And so it is a different generation. And I, I think we've got to shift it from how do we get them out of that mindset? I don't want them out of that mindset. I actually want them with that lean forward. And instead of saying that, I think we should be saying is how do we leverage that amazing forward lean? In such enthusiastic, you know, good hearted human beings who want to do good they want to do right, they want to do better? And how do we as an organization leverage that it's funny at Cardinal I'm, so I'm a Gen X, too. But our organization is so young that everybody here calls me a cardinal Boomer, because we are so shifted young. But we have, we have created this amazing ethos where they are leveraging some of my expertise, but they're not losing, they're forward lean. So that's one of the big things I think that people need to do is make them feel visible, make them feel heard, and then leverage their forward lean.

Laura Hamill:

I love that Peter that I just had a little example of that. It was like, that's just my daughter just did that exact same thing at school. And she had to learn Tableau. And she has never used Tableau before. And she had to use it for the end of the year project. And so at the beginning of the end of the year project, she decided to learn Tableau. And so I was kind of freaking out for saying, you have to learn and she showed me what she had to do with it was really, there was a lot to it, it felt kind of complicated. She's like, What? Like, okay, like, she completely figured it out and learn tableau for a project at the end of the year and did really well on it. And like, amazing, well, in my head, I would have thought I need to take a class and I need to write and she figured it out. So I'm with you on that kind of lean forward, I can figure this out kind of mentality.

Michael McCarthy:

I'm gonna follow up on that when with the Gen z's. A lot of my clients and students are really challenged with this belief that Gen Z is willing to walk out the door in a second. Because Oh, I saw greenwashing. I don't like it, even without another follow up job, go move back into mom and dad's basement, etc. And they kind of don't know how to deal with the fact that they'll, they'll leave really quickly. Yeah. And I'm wondering, how do you how do you handle that? What would you advise?

Peter Lynch:

So again, I'm a I'm a two sides of the coin guy. I always say if there's one side of a coin, there is another side that is beautiful, and will combat that. So while they are quick to leave, they are way more committed to stay. And so I would say what you've got to do is tap into the part that you want. Are they quick to leave? Yes. And that's a beautiful thing, right? They're not going to put up with a fake culture. They're not going to put up with asshole leaders. They're not going to and that's that's beautiful, like I was one of the things I told Alex, when I came to cardinals, I said I want to build a workplace that I would love to send my kids to. And I don't want my kids going to work for assholes or horrible cultures. I want them to fight for something spectacular. So what I would say on the Gen Z side, I would tell Gen X Boomer leaders, I would tell them tap into the beauty that is the commitment that this group has the commitment to do the right thing to do the good thing and to work hard. And so when I have somebody who's like, I don't like this, there was an amazing speaker that I heard and she she had this thing she said 131 - When she said, if you bring me one problem, I want you to bring three solutions. And then what is your one suggestion? And I love that that's empowering them to not only help solve the problem, but tell me, what would you do. And if you tap into that, you are no longer tapping into their desire to leave, you're tapping into their desire to stay.

Michael McCarthy:

I love that just as a quick follow up, because I know we're running out of time. And Tesla wanted to ask another question, what do you do if it's a massive company like global global publicly traded? Never going to change? Yeah. But there's this micro group, no group of 10, maybe 100 1000? Who were like, hey, you know, we want to do what you're talking about? Can that happen in thrive in like a micro culture when the larger culture just isn't gonna change?

Peter Lynch:

100% 100% and I'm a, I'm a backwards culture builder. I start with me, then I go to my team, then I go to the organization, whereas most people would say, how do we change the culture of the organization? And I'm telling you, if you haven't changed your team, or yourself, it's impossible. So I would tell leaders, first, start with yourself, start with this acknowledgement of where have I failed at building culture in myself? How am I showing up? You know, have I was I a jerk in a meeting? And I didn't apologize. That's culture failure on me, then what can I do with my team? I think micro cultures Michael, are so powerful. And having spent a lot of time in the Fortune 500. That's really how I started becoming a culture expert is I was, I wasn't a company culture. I was a micro culture, it was a me and my team.

Tessa Misiaszek:

So as we bring us to a close here, and honestly, Peter, this was the most interesting and fully packed hour of a podcast. So we're gonna have to have you back for sure. But kind of to that, that that last piece, to to the Gen Z employees that might be listening to you, and who are committed to stay, who liked the work? Who, who might want to be thinking about okay, so I'm kind of in this toxic environment and culture, but I believe in the company, I believe in what the work is, and I see potential for my career here, what would be the piece of advice you would give to them? Or that they could do to help make their situation better? How could you know, what advice would you give them to empower themselves to start to try to make a change or to have a positive impact on the culture?

Peter Lynch:

Yeah, and I mean, I'll, I'll start with who, you know what I tell my leaders on my team that are younger, it's, you know, I understand that there are times when I'm going to come with a really strong voice. And I have a lot of experience and with experience comes instinct. And instinct sometimes has zero thought. And so if I'm going to operate in instinct, but I don't necessarily want to do that, if it's not the best thing. So I, I've challenged them. And I would challenge any Gen Z listening here to find that mentor or leader in the group that is willing to listen and go to them and say, Is there any chance that I could a learn from you, but then also be teach you. So it's this interesting dynamic, I have a three pronged mentorship. I've always had three mentors in my life at all time, I have someone older than me, who has gotten where I want to be somebody my age, who's crushing the game, and then somebody who's younger than me, who I can learn from. So in my world there, I have Dominic the young, I have Tony the same, and I have mark the older. So I would challenge them to find somebody that is of like mind, and ask them the question kindly to say, hey, I want to learn from you first and foremost. And then would you be open? If I could challenge you on anything? And I'm telling you, if they're a good leader, they're going to be open to that.

Unknown:

That's

Tessa Misiaszek:

That's wonderful. Reverse mentorship. I love that. Just out of curiosity, have you written a book?

Peter Lynch:

So yeah, so we're in the, the, the phases of publishing my book, it'll probably be published next summer or next fall?

Tessa Misiaszek:

So yeah, do you have a title yet or is it still embargoed?

Peter Lynch: No, it's:

The Ugly Advantage. We don't have the subtitle, but the main title will be the ugly advantage.

Tessa Misiaszek:

Awesome. Well, I was gonna say, because if you don't have a book yet, you need one. Because you have so much, great wisdom and advice to share. So thank you, Peter Lynch, for joining us. It was a wonderful, wonderful to spend time with you.

Peter Lynch:

Thank you so much.

Laura Hamill:

Thank you.

Michael McCarthy:

Thanks.

Peter Lynch:

Thanks.

Michael McCarthy:

We hope you've enjoyed this episode. If you'd like to hear future episodes, be sure to subscribe to the happy at work podcast, and leave us a review with your thoughts.

Tessa Misiaszek:

Are you interested in speaking on a future episode or want to collaborate with us? Let us know you can send us an email at admin at happy at work podcast.com

Laura Hamill:

And lastly follow us on LinkedIn or Twitter for even more happiness See you soon

People on this episode

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Laura Hamill, PhD

Host
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Michael McCarthy

Host
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Tessa Misiaszek, PhD

Host
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Ariel Folkerts

Producer