Gen Z Perspectives: Careers, Culture and the Future of Work with Amelia, Chloe, and Emily

We've got another Gen Z panel for you!

In this episode, Tessa and Michael chat with Amelia Haynes, Chloe Carr, and Emily Gianunzio to discuss their career paths, workplace culture experiences, and outlook on the future of work. 

Our panelists share insights into navigating early careers, priorities around purpose and growth, and myths about their generation. Listen in as all three women offer thoughtful perspectives on work-life integration, technology use, and resilience in the face of challenges.

To stay connected and continue the conversation, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn.

And don't forget to check out our previous episodes for more tips and strategies to boost your workplace happiness. You can find them on your favorite podcast platform or on our website.

If you have any questions, comments, or topic suggestions for future episodes, please reach out to us. We'd love to hear from you!

Stay inspired, stay motivated, and stay happy at work!

Transcript

Laura Hamill: 0:06

Welcome back for another episode of the happy at work podcast, with Laura, Tessa and Michael.

Tessa Misiaszek: 0:14

Each week we have thoughtful conversations with the leaders, founders and authors about happiness at work.

Michael McCarthy: 0:22

Tune in each Thursday for a new conversation. Enjoy the show.

Tessa Misiaszek: 0:38

Welcome to the happy at work podcast today, Michael and I are so excited to be able to speak to a group of young professionals who are part of what is known as Generation Z. And really hear from them as to how Generation Z is viewing the workplace today, how they're perceiving it, what their experiences, because we certainly hear a lot of people talking about Generation Z in the workplace, but we thought it was a really good idea to ask them directly, what are their thoughts? What are their thoughts about their career aspirations? What are their thoughts about workplace culture? And what are their thoughts about what really motivates them in the workplace as well. So I am thrilled to be joined today by Amelia Haynes, who's a graduate of Yale University, Chloe Carr, who's a graduate of University of Utah, and Emily Jan Zo, who is a graduate of Bates College as well as the University of St. Andrews, where she she got her master's degree. So welcome, everyone. And we are so excited to get started with this great conversation.

Michael McCarthy: 1:44

Welcome.

Tessa Misiaszek: 1:47

Okay, so we are going to go ahead and get started. And I'm actually going to toss this first question over to Amelia, which is what motivated you to really pursue the current path that you're on?

Amelia H.: 2:02

That's a good question. I would say that my particular journey to where I am and what I'm doing today was not a super linear path. And there were moments when it wasn't necessarily the most intentional set of choices, I actually thought it ended up in a really, really different space. So I was pursuing intelligence and working in the intelligence community, and actually did that for a little while before I came here through internships. But I was really interested as a whole on what makes exceptional humans exceptional. And then the space of intelligence work, I was kind of interested on in the kind of negative end of the spectrum, like why do people do bad things? Why do people end up and highly antisocial behaviors and in a more problematic end of like, the social spectrum, as we've defined it, but kind of somewhere in my senior year of college, I started exploring the other end of the spectrum, like what makes exceptional humans really exceptional, what makes special people really special, what makes people who are great at work great at work. So it was really just an evolution of this path of exploring human behavior at the kind of tail ends of the bell curve. And that's how I got here, I got to where I am by really trying to dig in and understand why are people the way they are? And why did they do what they tried to do? So it was it was a little bit serendipitous. It sounds more straightforward. This ended up being but I guess I kind of got lucky by really leveraging my network and talking to people who were above me and around me about what are the options in this sort of niche space?

Tessa Misiaszek: 3:40

Excellent. And Amelia, we should say for the audience that you're about four years out of college, undergrad? Yeah, three and a half, three years. Okay. And then we've got Chloe, who's about a year and a half out of undergrad. So Chloe, how about what are your thoughts on that question?

Chloe C.: 3:58

Yeah, I would say I think Amelia, Amelia is answer was more unselfish than mine. But mine, I would say, land somewhere in that crossover of how can you make money doing something that you enjoy, and I so I've always liked writing and I've always found that to be something that is easier and comes a little bit more naturally to me than any other subject in school growing up. And I always loved a little bit in my head. So I think that that was a way for me to kind of organize a lot of things that I was thinking about growing up and in college, it was just something that I always gravitated to once again, but I'm also a very nervous person and the thought of trying to make a living in I mean, well writing honestly was really scary. It's it's a hard thing to get into and to be great at right out the gate and so there was a lot of conversing with My peers and also my parents and their friends and trying to figure out okay, what do people do? How do people get into their careers? And a lot of that landed in the same in the same kind of vein of, well, I still get to write in my job doing this and, or is it something else that they do? That was something that was an interest growing up? It's the same kind of thing. It's how can you find the crossover of both? So that's kind of how it's, again, more selfish. But that's how I landed in this spot so far.

Tessa Misiaszek: 5:32

Excellent. And we'll do that intro question for Emily. And then Michael, I'll toss it to you. But Emily, how how did you find yourself where you are? So for the audience, you went to undergrad, but you actually went and did your masters got a master's degree right away while playing field hockey in Scotland. So tell us a little bit about how you feel like you kind of ended up in your current role.

Emily G.: 5:53

Yeah, so I was a psychology undergrad, which is super broad, right, I and I knew I didn't want to go clinical lab, that would be too much for me. And I knew that and junior year, I ended up doing a job shadow with a leadership psychologists who had his own kind of like private practice consulting firm. And it really opened my eyes to leadership, Psychology and Organizational like IO psychology. I had no idea that existed, there were no courses, Bates College where I went that had those types of courses. So I did more digging in that and realize that that really lines up like Chloe said, like my passion for I played sports all through college. So like that team dynamic, and how to get people cooperating and efficiently producing their to the same goal. And then also psychology of like, how are they thinking to do that? So I found that I wanted to go into that. That's also kind of niche like not a lot of entry level positions for organizational psychologist. So I started looking at HR positions, and like you said, I got really thrown a bone. I didn't know how that happened. But I ended up going to the University of St. Andrews to play field hockey, got my masters there. And while I was there, networked my way into the position that I'm in now, which is really the ideal position that I was looking for. So I don't know how I lucked out.

Michael McCarthy: 7:13

These are great. I love how thoughtful all three of you are, in your choices. My generation were like, where do we make the most money? And is that a short commute? Do I get two weeks vacation? So I really appreciate you're very like less transactional than my generation. So my question is, imagine that you're looking for a new job. So you're considering an employer or you're considering a specific job role, what's really important to you, when you are looking for an employer or you are looking for a job role. So I'd like to start with Chloe, then go to Amelia and then go to Emily. So Chloe, when you're looking for a position, what's what's really important for you.

Chloe C.: 7:55

So that's definitely changed since coming into the role that I'm in now. And the best way, meaning, I think I would look for an opportunity to explore the truth is, you don't know what you don't know. And until you kind of get your hands on something, or, you know, start exploring areas you never thought would be of interest to you. You know, you don't you don't necessarily know what paths you want to take. And I think I I know a lot of people that have been kind of siloed in their early careers that don't get the opportunity to fully kind of venture out and see what it is that they want to do. And in this job, I'm granted the well, I'm granted the opportunity, obviously, while still doing my my job, I'm gonna have the opportunity to kind of play around and see what sticks and see what I find of interest to myself, while still benefiting the company that I'm at

Michael McCarthy: 8:50

so, so some autonomy, some exploration. I love it. Thank you, Amelia, what's important to you when you're looking for a new employer or a new job? Yeah,

Amelia H.: 9:01

I mean, I would start by echoing everything Chloe said autonomy, flexibility kind of room for curiosity is super important to me. I also want to know that the work that I'm doing actually matters and not sometimes matters on like the global societal scale, but also sometimes matters just in like I am providing value, where I am not just doing kind of menial tasks to be busy. You know, I want to know that I'm contributing something and I want to know that it matters either to my team or or on that kind of more societal, environmental, global scale. So doing work that counts that that would be a big thing. And then for me, development opportunity is really, really important. I want to be able to move up whether that's, you know, through the next level up or whether it's kind of move across and learn something that's kind of parallel to what I'm doing. But knowing that there is a path is really, really critical to me, I think watching as the world changes fast as it does, and watching technology change the world of work as fast as it has, being able to progress along with it. And being able to progress kind of at that accelerated rate that we're seeing the world change at, makes it feel like we're not going to get left behind, which is kind of a scary, scary thing. Like if you are going to be stagnant in a role for a year or two years, you know, everything can look different by the time you come out of it. So being in an environment that supports growth, in pace with the market and in pace of the world and an in pace with kind of technological advancement. That would be really important to me. I

Michael McCarthy: 10:39

love that so mattering, meaning purpose, important work. Yeah, I love all that and growth opportunities, whether they're up or sideways, just this adding to that experience palette. Lovely. Thank you. Emily, would you like to round us out? Yeah, for

Unknown: 10:54

sure. I thought was interesting. When you mentioned like the transactional piece, Mike, Michael, sorry. Because I feel like this phrase that keeps coming up is like live to work or work to live. And I do think that our generation has more of like, the flip version of what it has been in the past. And I think that that goes into what I'd look for very nicely. And I'm sorry about that. I'm gonna echo Chloe and Amelia on purpose and autonomy, I think three things that I'm would take from this job when I'm looking for a new employer, if I'm looking for new employer is autonomy. So I have this flexibility and autonomy to like, learn what I want to learn, go into projects that I find interesting. And then also purposeful, I know that what we're doing, at least the people I'm working with have that culture of like we're trying to be purposeful in what we're doing. And then additionally, team and team dynamic, the team we work with, I think we all have pretty similar purposes in what we're doing. And then also like work life balance, the way that we view, our main goal is aligned. And I think that's definitely something I that would be like the number one thing I'm looking for in my next employer of making sure especially my, my direct boss is like having a similar thought process of what we're doing, as I do. Thank you.

Tessa Misiaszek: 12:15

So Emily, I want to I want to I'm coming back straight to you. Because you mentioned work life balance. And I do think so we're starting to get into myths about Generation Z, right is the fact that it is a little bit the myth that you all care more about your outside of work life than you do your your work life. Obviously, I think that is not true as it relates to just a better having a better perspective on how you actually integrate your work and life. But when you think about work life balance, you know, what are strategies that you actually might do to try to maintain that because it's interesting when I reflect back, and Michael, I'm sure you can probably relate to this. 30 years ago, when I started my career, I had to be in my office at my computer until my boss left, I could never leave before my boss, I don't know why that's just the stupidest thing I've ever thought was true at the time. And she wouldn't leave until 738 o'clock at night. So I would sit on my computers on 730 or eight, like doing nothing. And by the way, we didn't have the internet. So it was really boring. So you know, when you think about how to maintain and strategies for that work life balance, or that work life integration, what are some things that you do,

Unknown: 13:30

I'm glad you brought up that like stereotype type, because I don't disagree with it, I think that we, our generation is trying to I'm gonna go back to that phrase a bunch, I feel like because it's really telling, like, trying to integrate our work with our life, like you just listen to how we all picked what we were doing. And it's not, we're doing it to go make money. It's a lot of we're doing it because this is something I like to do. So even in my free time, I'm still kind of doing something that relates to that. And going off of the sitting at your desk, like until your boss leaves. There's some times where like, I'm not working, and then I'll go back to my desk and work way past when I mean, maybe not you test but like a different boss would have left. And I think that has to do with a lot of like the remote flexibility. But also, I'm kind of going to stray from the question, but I think the strategy to maintain that work life balance is to know that you're doing something that you would do in your life side of the work life balance. No,

Tessa Misiaszek: 14:29

I really appreciate that. Because honestly, oftentimes when I'm sitting at my computer on a Saturday afternoon, my husband's like, are you working? And I'm like, No, you don't understand, like I do everything on my computer, I write on my computer. And like my work is my life kind of but not in a bad way. Like I really genuinely like research and I really would do that probably in my spare time. So I completely understand Emily, when you say like some of the work that you would do in your spare time is related to the work you do at your job. So, Amelia, I know you've actually You've written about this topic as well. So what are your thoughts on it?

Amelia H.: 15:04

I mean, from a work that I've done on the topic perspective, I think one phrase that has come up more and more in conversation in the literature lately is workplace integration rather than work life balance. And I think that speaks to exactly what you and Emily are talking about. It's like not necessarily drawing these hard and fast lines around like, well, this is my work. And this is my life. And they're separate things. And I have to put them on each side of the scale and make it kind of equally weighted, but rather, like my life is part of my work. And my work is part of my life, and that I can kind of seamlessly transition in and out of them as it suits me on a particular day. And sometimes that's going to mean working more, because you're interested or working more because you have space or you have capacity. And sometimes it's going to mean working less, because you don't, or maybe you actually just don't have as much to do. But you're not necessarily rushing to fill your plate with other stuff just because there's room on it. And I think that's a good strategy kind of go with the flow. And you know, in my very early days, in my job, I was told to ride the wave, like some days, it's going to be heavier, and you're going to have to pedal pretty hard to keep your head above water, and there will be those days and you can get through them. But there's also going to be days when it's pretty quiet and let it be quiet. And don't necessarily be like, Hey, I've got more because more will come. That being said, from a personal perspective, I'm not always great at work life balance. So you know, I don't want to go too far in suggesting that, like, I've got it all figured out, or that Gen Z is like really kind of prioritizing, like life over work or work over life, I think it's pretty mixed. And you know, people who I talked to our age are falling all over the spectrum in terms of like how well they balanced that how well they manage that. And you know, day to day I kind of all over the place in terms of my own work life balance approach. But I'm kind of to the point that I'm always making a lot of the times that I'm working more than I'm necessarily a lot of force because I want to because I care about what I'm doing because they care about my team because I care about my job. And I don't think that's bad thing.

Tessa Misiaszek: 17:12

And so Chloe, I'm gonna toss the next question to you, but a different question around technology, and how has technology influenced your work habits or your expectations of what the employer should be helping you do with technology?

Chloe C.: 17:27

I mean, that's, that's such a tough question. Because I feel like it's changing. As we speak, there's so much coming onto the scene with AI, and especially for my particular role. A lot of that can be scary, talking about writing, what can AI emulate and what can't it and I think the big thing for me is not being afraid of it and learning to leverage it in the way that it's intended. So using it as a starting point and kind of building off of it and enhancing it. And then being able to produce more work, I don't know that I feel like I'm doing more work now than before I was using AI to help with whatever it is that I'm doing. I think I'm just able to move through it quicker. So I'm not I'm not necessarily overloading myself with something that it just feels like too much. But I'm able to kind of get through things and, and almost make it better than it was before because again, you have more tools at your disposal. So I in my personal situation, I don't think that there's more expectations placed on me because of technology. I think it's I mean, if anything, if there's more expectations on me, it's me putting it on myself, because I I've not I'm now able to make better work, and I'm gonna keep doing that I think it would, I think anybody would be a little crazy to do something really great. And to then want to abandon that completely. So I love

Michael McCarthy: 19:02

that. So now we're gonna go into workplace culture. And I'd like to get all three of your perspective. So we'll start with Emily, then Chloe, then Amelia. One is do you think culture matters? Especially if like your hybrid or remote? And what kind of workplace culture do you thrive in? And how do you think companies could change to make things better for your generation to support you through culture? That's

Unknown: 19:32

a big question was I do think culture matters. I think that the word I'd like to use more values, so the value of your team matters the value of and I'm keep saying team instead of organization because I'm, I'm speaking we're pretty small team. And I feel like some organizations you don't really have that outreach in like a bigger organization that you're in. So maybe the overall organization doesn't necessary really hit all of your values on the head. But if the close people you're interacting with on a daily basis do I do think that that's what I'm searching for, at least when I'm talking about like culture fit and being hybrid or remote, I don't think affects that at all. Because you're still trying to have a similar goal as the rest of your colleagues. So maybe not everything has to line up, but at least that end purpose of like, what why are we doing this? And what are we doing? What are we trying to accomplish? I guess that's a shortened version of that. I had one point to make about the technological question, if I can go for a conversation with a friend's parent about it goes back to what you're saying tests about sitting at your desk until after your boss leaves. And they mentioned that I had never thought of this, that when they were our age, they didn't have computers at home, they couldn't check their email, from their phone. They couldn't bring a laptop with. So you needed to stay at your desk, because if you got something to do, you wouldn't know until you came back to work the next day, which

Tessa Misiaszek: 21:02

really for this, suddenly, I literally had a pager, I had a pager and then had to call landline to find out once you got that, that explains

Unknown: 21:10

that whole trend. And like the norm of steak coming to the opposite six and leaving until after your boss gets there. But I think as technology advances, we can't continue having those you have to adapt. And I know plenty of finance, plenty of industries that are still living that way, even though there are plenty and plenty of technological advancements that they don't need to come to the office at six in the morning. Because they can do that from home. Until they get there. That was just a point I wanted to make. I don't think that we always tie it back to like just computers. But like, because AI is so crazy. But really like we had a whole tech advancements in this generation gap already. And it was computers that was like that simple. And I don't think anything really changed that much, but it can. Beautiful.

Michael McCarthy: 21:57

Thank you, Emily. Amelia, would you like to take the culture question that doesn't matter? If so what workplace culture do you thrive in? And how can organizations do better to support Gen Z? And what they'd like to say?

Amelia H.: 22:11

Yeah, I think it does matter. It certainly matters to me, one of the things that I value most about the culture that we're in right now is that, at least again, in our team, it does feel pretty flat. You know, I feel like I am able to reach out to people at all kinds of formal levels of our team, and have a conversation or share an idea or brainstorm together. And that that really matters to me, because I love having just like idea conversations, I love trying to like come up with a new solution to something. And I love that in the culture that we're in, that's allowed. And it was three years ago, too. And I had just joined and I was quite a bit younger than most of the team. And by far the most junior and those ideas were still really welcome. So that kind of culture of openness and collaboration and trust has been and remains really important to me and not something I necessarily anticipated coming into the workforce, but definitely something I would continue to look for as they move through it. I think as an this might be like a little bit of a hot take. But I think as a Gen Xer in particular, because of the role that technology plays at work. A culture that respects boundaries is also really important to me, having a computer and a phone and a team's message app and an email that lives on all of my devices. I think that the role that technology has played has created almost a culture of instant gratification in a lot of places where everybody feels like they should have access to you at all times. And that's really hard to set boundaries around when you're young, when you're new when you're trying to grow when you're trying to develop. And so it places this burden of like protection of time on the employee. So being in a place that supports that, that encourages that. And that makes that okay is really important to me, because, you know, I get calls at 930 at night from people in Australia or sometimes there's like a 5:45am call because, you know, we've got someone in Singapore and that's fine. You know, like that can be okay. But it then also has to be okay when I'm like I got to take a step back because my day has been 12 hours long. So an appreciation or respect for and an encouragement of healthy work boundaries by an organization by a team, I think in the age of technology in particular becomes even more important. So

Michael McCarthy: 24:44

well said and before we move to Chloe, Emily, did you want to did you want to add to Amelia as comments

Unknown: 24:49

just around the time management piece of like setting that boundary I was. It was the time management class I took to us. It's hard. It's even harder when you don't set that up. On view originally, and then learn that you should have and then your boss is now expecting that. So it's like, I feel like that idea of constantly reassessing boundaries, but then also letting coworkers allow themselves to reassess their boundaries. Because sometimes it takes a second to adapt to like, Okay, wait, I just had a 312 hour days, like, that's not okay. It's

Michael McCarthy: 25:22

beautiful. Thank you. So, so closely, does workplace culture matter? If so, what kind of culture do you thrive in? And what can companies change for your generation to to make it better for you?

Chloe C.: 25:33

Yeah, I think I might take this in a little bit of a different direction. Culture, I think definitely does matter. And a culture that I think I thrive in, just based on me personally, as a connected one. I think there's a common misconception that Gen Z is, and I say this having been involved in numerous conversations, where people think that Gen Z is very disconnected from other humans and anti social. And I would strongly disagree with that, because I think we're connecting with our peers on various social media platforms at the same time. And I think it's the way that our the way we connect with each other, it looks different maybe than it has in the past, but I don't think it's necessarily less than. And being on a team that is entirely remote, it can feel really easy to feel disconnected. But I would say that our my colleagues, particularly people that I work with really closely do a great job of finding ways to mitigate that and to connect, even though we are quite literally all across the globe. And I really value that because I tend to want to work better work more, I'm more inclined to pick up a call at 9pm. If it's people that I feel connected to not only professionally but personally, if it's for a project that I know that a colleagues on that they're they're really trying to get over the finish line, and I'm not doing anything, I wouldn't hesitate to pick up the phone. But if it was someone that I don't know, and I don't know why they're calling, and I have no insight to what it is that they're doing. Again, it's that it's the connectedness I like to I don't have to be best friends with everyone I work with. But I like knowing that people that I'm spending a lot of money with, I like knowing who they are as people. So thank you.

Tessa Misiaszek: 27:30

So I want to actually play on that a little bit, Chloe. So this, I'm gonna throw this out to the whole group. So Chloe, you can answer or Amelia or Emily, and let me know your thoughts. But you just brought up, I think a myth about Gen Z being socially disconnected or, you know, not able to socialize. What are some other myths that you feel like are out there about Generation Z that you would love to debunk right now? What have you heard? Or what are assumptions that you feel like people make about your generation that you're like, where are they getting this from? That

Unknown: 28:05

we don't work?

Tessa Misiaszek: 28:10

And where do you hear that from? Like, who like how do you how do you hear that? Is it just kind of in the water supply that people kind of you hear the that kind of myth? Or have you actually come across that in your own experience?

Unknown: 28:22

I feel like sometimes we're on calls and me and koi will be Gen z's, then we'll hear these things and just sit quietly, working. We're working on a goal.

Tessa Misiaszek: 28:35

So in place, you're hearing people talk about your generation when you're sitting on the call talking about these best and you're Yeah, I'm right here. Yeah,

Unknown: 28:44

I think it's also I mean, Chloe, please chime in. But I think it's it's hard to be like, That's interesting, because here I am on my work computer working with you. And you don't want to be rude. Just typically it's coming from not like a millennial. It's coming from high up.

Tessa Misiaszek: 29:05

I think it's coming from our generation.

Michael McCarthy: 29:09

My generation winners, our generation. Gen

Tessa Misiaszek: 29:12

Xers or Gen Xers. Oh, okay. I'm not gonna be great. How about how about some other myths? Yeah, Amelia,

Amelia H.: 29:23

um, that Gen Z is entitled, I feel like I hear that one a lot. And I think that what it's coming from is that Gen Z actually just has a lot more information, like with LinkedIn with the internet, like, we know what else is out there. And so we can kind of benchmark ourselves around what we perceive as like acceptable or normal or available. And we don't necessarily just settle for what's in front of us because it's in front of us like we know that there is more we know that there's an opportunity to get more. That being said, I think the There's there is something to be said for being realistic as Gen Z like not every company that you go into even if the title is the same is going to be able to pay you like Google does, like not every company you go to is going to have like, cafeterias and shuttle services. So there is there is some notion of like being realistic and setting your expectations about what a company can offer. But the choice is there. Like if you can get the job a group of great, and I don't think it's entitled to say that you want that, because you know that it's an option.

Tessa Misiaszek: 30:35

Actually, go ahead, Michael.

Michael McCarthy: 30:36

Yeah. Can I throw one out that I've just sort of, you know, I hear a lot. And I'd love just to super transparent response that Gen Z isn't super loyal, that they'll leave at the drop of a hat. And they'll they'll leave without a backup job. Like if they don't like something, let's say there's greenwashing or it's unethical to be like, I'm not going to do this. I'm quitting now. Goodbye. True. Not true. Where do you see the smile on Emily's face? So?

Unknown: 31:05

I mean, I think that you can say that a lot differently. And I don't necessarily, I don't think it's not loyal. I think it's we're valuing our values, maybe more than past generations did. Especially when you get into like, ESG dei stuff. It's like, I'm working for a purpose. And if that purpose isn't being met, then it's like, I'm going to stand on my ground of what I came here to do. So I maybe think it's like, maybe it's a rephrase. But I also think that like, I'm sitting here being like, geez, I network for this job, and I love it. I'm not leaving ever. So

Michael McCarthy: 31:40

it's just about having having more, be more aware of your values and giving them more more valuable appreciating that that's self esteem. To me. I think that's great.

Unknown: 31:48

I think it's also, I was gonna say, like the stereotype of being sensitive. And I think that plays into that, because you hear like, Oh, they're so sensitive, like, they won't work until 11pm. Because they're sensitive. I'm like, No, it's because I have a value that I don't want to work until 11pm. I also think that comes from hazing is not the wrong word. But this concept of like, when I was there, I stayed until 11pm. So why aren't you saying to 11pm? And I don't necessarily think that's a growth mindset. Interesting.

Michael McCarthy: 32:21

Well, we I saw your finger pop up there. And then Amelia, perspective.

Chloe C.: 32:25

Well, you said something that struck a nerve with me, it was bull, you said loyalty. And I am, I am a firm believer, and this is what I've always learned is that loyalty is earned. And so on the other end, what is the organization you are working for? What are they doing to earn that loyalty? So if you're at a company that is not making money in there, and they're willing to lay off a large portion of the organization at the drop of a hat, why in return, should they get any loyalty from their employees. And then on the opposite end, I have, I have a friend who works for a company that she is, she says, As long as she is able to stay there she will, because even during COVID, and their particular industry was hit hard during COVID, their organization did not lay off a single person and they and they made cuts in other areas. And they, you know, everyone kind of had to endure together. But they had an organization that valued their employees and said, Look, we know what you all contribute. And we want to make sure that everyone here at the end of the day has a job. And then the employees there obviously feel that sense of loyalty and return. But I think there's a lot of companies that wouldn't necessarily say that they're doing the same or that they have that same loyalty to their employees to expect that in return.

Michael McCarthy: 33:54

That's perfectly said I entered into the workforce and Wall Street in the mid 80s. And then the generation before mine, I guess that was baby boomers. Tessa, their average tenure at an organization could be 20 years, and you get the gold watch the retirement party. My generation, it was the first time where Wall Street firms would go out of business. So the first crash of 87 I was working at Rothschild, I was out of a job that afternoon, they they lost so much money in the market that that was it. And that was when we realized, you know, we're there for you for the 20 years. But you're not there for us. So we can't depend on you. And then Gen Z is going to be 10 Gen X our generation, the average tenure went down to like 10 years, because we're like, yeah, the loyalty is there if the money's there, and everything's good, but you'll drop me in a second. So I totally get that. I totally get that. So thank you, Amelia. What do you think? Mythbusters Yeah,

Amelia H.: 34:49

I mean, as far as the loyalty piece goes, I definitely echo what has been said so far. I mean, that being said, I've been where I am for almost four years and that I feel like for Our generation first job out of college is kind of unheard of. But again, I don't personally know anyone our age who would leave without a job to go to that seems kind of crazy to me in this economy, but a look more power to

Michael McCarthy: 35:18

go to mom's basement. But yeah, it could just be. We're not doing that.

Tessa Misiaszek: 35:25

I mean, this has been an amazing conversation. I don't know about you, Michael, I think the last time we had our Gen Z panel, it's like these are the most self aware, intelligent, value based people. So just fantastic conversation. I have one last question to ask all three of you, which is really around the future and what how you're feeling about the future? The world is not so a little bit right now. And of course, we hear the economy is terrible. But then the Dow reached an all time high, we hear about geopolitical strife, we've got climate change. Undoubtedly, I will say that it's the baby boomers and the Gen Xers that probably screwed the world up. Well, they did screw the world up for all of you to try to fix. And so what, what is your outlook? Well, when you look five to 10 years out, when it comes to work, you know, are you kind of like, Hey, I'm not really looking that far out? I'm kind of right here, or, you know, do you do you have optimism? Or are you You know, what are your thoughts on, say, an outlook of five to 10 years and employment.

Chloe C.: 36:26

See, I think five to 10 years, I because I'm, I'm changing what it is, or my idea of what I want to be when I grow up all the time, because you know, you learn new things, and you see examples of what other people are doing. And you kind of get the Oh, that looks interesting. And I'm under no impression that the same things that I value today are gonna be the same things I value in 10 years. So that I kind of leave open. But I would say what I do aim to have, I think it's the name of the podcast of I would like to be happy at work, I want to find in any role that I am in. Going forward, I want to find the space where I'm able to find meaning in the work that I'm doing. And with the people I'm doing it with, and hopefully, you know, having a job and a career that adds value to my life and doesn't isn't a hindrance, is it something that is an energy suck that is pulling my time and energy and resources away from the rest of my life. So I I guess that's a very optimistic answer. So we'll see where I am in 10 years.

Tessa Misiaszek: 37:39

Fantastic. How about Amelia?

Amelia H.: 37:42

Oh, no, if I spent a lot of time thinking about where I'm going to be in 10 years personally, but as far as Gen Z as a whole goes, I know at least the what are my concerns me like a geriatric Gen Z are like we entered the workforce during COVID. And since then, it's been more COVID more economic, more geopolitical unrest, more like there's been so much change more technological advancement in the past couple of years than I think anyone could have anticipated or was prepared for. But what I see as Gen Z, being incredibly agile, being incredibly adaptable, being incredibly open to that kind of change, and despite being unprepared for it, somehow still being prepared for it. So I think what I can say, at least more broadly, is that I think we have a generation that's remarkably equipped for what the next five to 10 years will bring, because this is just kind of what we've been doing.

Tessa Misiaszek: 38:47

I think that is an incredibly optimistic answer. I really love the way that you just articulated that. And I haven't honestly thought of that before. It's interesting because when we look at generational research around Millennials being very adaptable, because they've walked through so many trans technology changes over time, what you just articulated about what you all have been through the resilience that you've had to have, you know, having COVID hit during these really pivotal years of your life and then kind of dealing with so much change in the last three to four years. Yeah, that's super interesting. How about Emily was

Unknown: 39:25

gonna say we can kind of just end on Amelia like I was

Tessa Misiaszek: 39:29

we want to know your outlook

Unknown: 39:32

on what you just said, I completely agree and like Gen alpha, like they're just gonna roll the world in the next 10 years. So it doesn't

Tessa Misiaszek: 39:39

know for those listening at home who may not know Gen alpha is coming after Gen Z. So there they are the next generation I think, what are they? Everything? Yeah, they are my 1011 12 years old right now the oldest of Gen office so not not long.

Unknown: 39:57

That's a scary question. Just because It's like, it's loaded, not like I think of my career, but then everything attached to career like money and where I'm living, and just everything. So pretty scary to think about, I want to stay towards the positive side like Amelia and Chloe did. But I don't know, like, more realistically, for me, I think as long as I'm happy at work. And then I also think that this job taught me to cherish all of the pros your job has, because the end goal is always changing, like, what do I want to be when I grew up, like Chloe said, is always changing. So really having the ability to have time to kind of develop those values and see, like, where am I heading? Where can I go? And then trying new things? Like having an entrepreneurial mindset? Yes, that hopefully that that was that was pretty positive. Okay. Yeah, absolutely.

Tessa Misiaszek: 40:53

And I love like, both you and Chloe sat around, taking the time to explore and that you don't know where you're gonna necessarily be in 10 years. But knowing that there's a lot of options that you're not kind of on a one track, which honestly, again, going back to our generation, my I think I've mentioned on this podcast, and before that my first job was working in a very large CPG company, where most actually the two people that got hired with me on the same day in 1997, were both at our company for 25 years in the same track and the sales track, and they honestly, they're both a lot more wealthier. Because I took so many left to right turns off my career track, but, but that was the track. And that's what the majority did. Whereas I think it sounds like Chloe and Emily and Amelia, you have kind of the opportunity to explore and try new things. And I think being in a research area, too, you have an opportunity to explore and try new things. So Michael, what do you think? Do you think the future is bright with a generation like this? Oh,

Michael McCarthy: 41:56

I think the future is bright one is, from my perspective, what I've seen is, you're not all that different. One different thing that I do see that I have a lot of respect for with your generation is that you have values, you're aware of them, you protect them, you stand up for them, you have boundaries, and you leave, if if those are broken, my generation, we bent like a bamboo stick or whatever. So I have a lot of respect for that. And I think every generation just kind of grows up with like, Oh, this is bad. Like I grew up with ducking cover with nucular war and the ozone had cracked, and we're all going to like burn because my mother used to make hairspray. And you know, just figure stuff out. We're resilient and like, like, I think to Emilio's point, you know, you have a lot of tech, you're up on it, I think you're going to solve the challenges of the world the way other generations did. And I actually have a lot of confidence, I would lay bets on your generation that you're going to do really well. So that's how I feel about it. I

Tessa Misiaszek: 43:01

agree. And I do hope those listening to this podcast, like really listen to the lessons that are learned, because it's I mean, they're great leadership lessons. And I think this generation being so much more tapped into information and to education knowledge, to be able to find answers. So find answers so quickly, unlike previous generations, where they have a holdover knowledge in their head. It's just you guys are so much more evolved. And you're gonna I just can't imagine the leadership in the next 510 15 years when you when you all are leading the way and leading most organizations what that leadership is gonna look like. compared to today, I think it's going to be a totally different world. And I will probably be retired but you know, coming to you for like an hourly wage, to contract for something, just to be part of it. So anyways, with that being said, thank you so much, Emily, Amelia, and Chloe for joining the happy at work podcast today. And we definitely would love to check in with you guys in the future if you'd be willing. So thank you so much.

Michael McCarthy: 44:04

Thank you, everyone. We hope you've enjoyed this episode. If you'd like to hear future episodes, be sure to subscribe to the happy at work podcast and leave us a review with your thoughts.

Tessa Misiaszek: 44:18

Are you interested in speaking on a future episode or want to collaborate with us? Let us know. You can send us an email at admin at happy at work podcast.com And

Laura Hamill: 44:30

lastly, follow us on LinkedIn or Twitter for even more happiness. See you soon